THOUGHTS AND APOLOGIES
Hi you guys,
I want to apologize if I have triggered a firestorm. I’m also sorry if I came across as nitpicking. I certainly did not intend to engage in “word games.” No, I haven’t been studying up for an answer today. There was a time when I would gleefully dig in and prepare for battle over these things. I’ve learned a lot since then. I love you guys and I figure we are all on the same journey, doing our best. If you understand some things differently than I do, that’s fine with me. I could be wrong.
I really didn’t mean to play word games. I am kind of immersed in Greek. The word for “remember” carries a number of interesting nuances. Primarily, it is used to mean “to remind oneself, to recall to mind.” I honestly see a difference here between “forget” and “remind oneself, recall to mind.” As it relates to our position with God, it won’t make a difference. The point is, our sins will never be brought before us again based on the substitutionary work of Jesus. He took our sins upon us at the cross and paid for them all so there is no judgment still required for them. I just see a special kind of grace being demonstrated when God says he will not remind himself or recall to his mind our sin.
Regarding the questions God asked Adam and Abraham. No, I don’t think he was toying with those men. But neither do I think he was seeking information. I think God can ask questions of us in order to communicate something to us. Questions make us think. I don’t think such questions are indications that God lacks knowledge. I would say he was making a point.
The Son, second person of the Godhead, in some way set aside certain aspects of his divinity for the purpose of the incarnation. This debate has raged for many hundreds of years. In the evangelical branch in which I was raised I fear they failed to see the degree of Jesus’ humanity that they should have. It was too easy to answer questions by saying, “Well, Jesus was God, wasn’t he?” I profess that Jesus was fully God and fully man. He experienced God in the same way we do, by dependence on the Holy Spirit. We just can’t know what it would be like to be in perfect harmony with God because we are not sinless like he was. What might we know? What might we be able to do?
Finally, I think you actually state my position very clearly in your last paragraph: God “promises not to see” our sin based on the work of Christ.
I beg your forgiveness if I came off corrective or directive. I am grateful that God used your comments to humble me. I respect your thinking and your perspectives.
I want to apologize if I have triggered a firestorm. I’m also sorry if I came across as nitpicking. I certainly did not intend to engage in “word games.” No, I haven’t been studying up for an answer today. There was a time when I would gleefully dig in and prepare for battle over these things. I’ve learned a lot since then. I love you guys and I figure we are all on the same journey, doing our best. If you understand some things differently than I do, that’s fine with me. I could be wrong.
I really didn’t mean to play word games. I am kind of immersed in Greek. The word for “remember” carries a number of interesting nuances. Primarily, it is used to mean “to remind oneself, to recall to mind.” I honestly see a difference here between “forget” and “remind oneself, recall to mind.” As it relates to our position with God, it won’t make a difference. The point is, our sins will never be brought before us again based on the substitutionary work of Jesus. He took our sins upon us at the cross and paid for them all so there is no judgment still required for them. I just see a special kind of grace being demonstrated when God says he will not remind himself or recall to his mind our sin.
Regarding the questions God asked Adam and Abraham. No, I don’t think he was toying with those men. But neither do I think he was seeking information. I think God can ask questions of us in order to communicate something to us. Questions make us think. I don’t think such questions are indications that God lacks knowledge. I would say he was making a point.
The Son, second person of the Godhead, in some way set aside certain aspects of his divinity for the purpose of the incarnation. This debate has raged for many hundreds of years. In the evangelical branch in which I was raised I fear they failed to see the degree of Jesus’ humanity that they should have. It was too easy to answer questions by saying, “Well, Jesus was God, wasn’t he?” I profess that Jesus was fully God and fully man. He experienced God in the same way we do, by dependence on the Holy Spirit. We just can’t know what it would be like to be in perfect harmony with God because we are not sinless like he was. What might we know? What might we be able to do?
Finally, I think you actually state my position very clearly in your last paragraph: God “promises not to see” our sin based on the work of Christ.
I beg your forgiveness if I came off corrective or directive. I am grateful that God used your comments to humble me. I respect your thinking and your perspectives.
8 Comments:
I'm lost. Where is the debate raging? Great post, but I don't know from whence it came. If I'm butting in, sorry. WoSC
I really wouldn't have given it that much thought. As soon as my favorite "Yak Man" quoted a verse quoting Jesus as saying, "Hey! I don't even know when I'm returning...Only the Father knows!"
Well, I think it's pretty much time we poured some soup on his head! I cannot, will not, and don't, believe that the Son of God didn't know what God would know.
Yet, my favorite Yak Man believes this with all of his heart. We are practically two years older than these other kids. I imagine we should cut him and others like him a little slack-o-rino!
As far as we know, these lunatic evangelicals could be right. (Of course, that would make me look awfully silly.)
Ya know - the "parallel" Bible is helpful to some people I understand. Could one of you devise a way to have a "parallel" blog so we can all follow this a little easier?
WoSC and Chester,
Sorry for the confusion. That which went before can be found in the comments to the Smoking Christian's post a couple of days ago entitled, "The Only Prophet Not for Profit." Go there and this might make more sense.
Then again, maybe it won't?
My dear Shilohman. No need to apologize. I didn't think you were nitpicking and my use of the phrase "word games" was an unfortunate choice. I was trying to engage you in a little friendly theological sparring and I am afraid I was trying to get a rise out of you as well. (I have tried in vain with the lovable SC, lo these many months, but I think his brain is somewhat pickled and his eyes are watery with all the clouds of smoke. I don’t hold it against him.)
The impetus for my musings goes back quite some time and I have never had the opportunity to bounce my ideas off someone who wouldn’t reject them out of hand. I have wondered for some time how it is that God can forgive sin. His very nature rejects sin and the Bible uses language to indicate that his reaction against it is violent; so says Stott. Romans 3:25 says that “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.”
The second part completely puzzles me. How is this possible? How can God tolerate sin for even an instant? Second Peter says that, “our Lord’s patience means salvation.” Same question. It does no good to say that God loves us because I just ask, “Why is that?” We are completely unworthy and deserving of judgement. (I am speaking here of the human race.) So to help me understand why I can still exist in the same universe with a perfect God I have this idea that maybe God limits his knowledge of my sinfulness to protect me as he protected Moses in the cleft of the rock. This is what I had in mind when I wrote my comment on Peter’s blog. It’s probably half-baked.
Mrs. Yak thinks I am boring everyone and I should write you an email instead.
So I will end this comment here. Thanks for listening.
By the way. I always thought that remembering and forgetting were different sides of the same coin. I am glad to learn that in Greek this is not necessarily so. Thanks!
I had the same problem as WoSC, lost on the 'apologies'. I thought you were apologizing to So. Cal. for your fellow Mid Westerners. Thank you for guiding us to the hot topic.
SYS
Fascinating, now SC and I don't need to sign up for the theology classes we were contemplating. Do NOT go to e-mail! Please! I simply must have more. You see I'm not much of a joiner and my church just started up small groups. With these healthy debates I don't feel as guilty and can forget my sin of isolationism.
Onward Christian Bloggers
blogging as to war
with the words of Jesus
and prophets gone before,
armed with conjecture and deduction
you analyze and surmise
forward into blogging
raise you comments high!
Onward Christian bloggers
yes we do want more
and if we get lost or bored
back to SC as before.
What the heck? Did that one have had motions? No that was "I'm In the Lord's Army." I think I'll get up and sing that one right now. A little exercise would do my blogging bum good.
SYS
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